“If us conservatives really grab hold of this and start planting solid churches, we can make a huge difference — not just in our denomination, but for the kingdom…Susan LeClear said we had double the number of candidates at Synod this year. The young men are getting excited about what’s happening in the CRC..There’s something attractive about it: we’re fighting, we’re building, we’re bringing the gospel out in confessionally Reformed ways.” — Jason Ruis

“The work of the church is to be taken seriously, done dutifully, and done joyfully. I saw a lot of happy warriors at Synod….They can be contentious, they can fight and deliberate well — but they do it joyfully, as ambassadors of the kingdom, because Christ promised he’ll build his church and the gates of hell won’t stop it.” — Willy Krahnke

Summary of This Episode

Part two of the Synod 2026 recap picks up with one of the week’s quieter but more telling decisions: removing Our World Belongs to God from the Covenant for Office Bearers. Willy, who watched the hour-long debate closely, makes the crucial distinction — by the end, Synod wasn’t arguing the merits of Our World Belongs to God as a contemporary testimony at all, but whether it belonged in the document office bearers sign. His own conviction is clear: ordination should bind a leader to the ecumenical creeds and the Reformed confessions, and nothing in addition. Jason highlights Brittany Clark’s floor argument — if we’ve already voted not to include the Belhar, why keep one contemporary testimony and not the other? For both hosts this is another thread in the same rope: the CRC is doubling down on a confessionalist identity. Jason relays the line of the week, offered by a self-described transformationalist on the floor: the confessionalists are in the driver’s seat, the pietists are riding shotgun, and the transformationalists are in the back seat — and I’m okay with that. Willy, who counts himself a transformationalist and doctrinalist with a Kuyperian streak, agrees, and notes the arc of the week: Monday and Tuesday were hard to watch, but by Wednesday the boldness arose.

From there the conversation turns to the decisions about Synod itself. Both hosts warmly affirm two outcomes: keeping Sunday as a genuine Sabbath in the middle of Synod, and the decisive rejection of biennial synods. Willy, who sits on the COD and registered a negative vote on the biennial proposal, says the voice vote with no dissent tells him the denomination’s pulse is being read accurately — and that the task force behind these recommendations is out of touch. Jason hasn’t found anyone outside the task force who wanted biennial synods, and he makes the deeper case for meeting yearly: this year Synod twice or three times tabled a majority report to take up a minority report, only to have votes swing back — proof that real deliberation is happening, the kind that goes off the rails when a denomination only gathers every two years. Willy will carry that report back to his classis, he says, with a smile on his face.

The heart of part two is the episode’s most hopeful turn: the unanimously adopted ten-year church planting vision, and the Saturday-night State of the Church address that set it up. Jason, who has long described Zach King as a likable but uninspiring leader, offers a genuine and surprising correction — King did a really great job, earned a standing ovation, and showed something Jason hadn’t seen in him for a while. King named the denomination’s moment as a pivot from a season of fighting into a season of building, an Antioch moment marked by discipleship, leadership development, and healthy church planting. The concrete goal is striking: 150 new churches in five years, roughly three per classis. Jason asks listeners to picture their own classis with three additional solid, confessionally Reformed congregations — the cumulative effect would remake the denomination. Willy, the transformationalist, can’t help noting it would remake the culture too, and the post-millennialist in him gets excited enough that they have to laugh and rein the conversation back in.

But both hosts ground the vision in realism. The CRC can’t plant churches it has no pastors to lead, so step one is leadership development against a real shortage. The plan includes hard conversations about legacy churches — closing unhealthy congregations in a way that seeds and fertilizes new ones — alongside the classis realignment that also passed this year. Jason’s encouragement to conservatives is to stop waiting and grab hold of this: Susan LeClear reported double the candidates at Synod this year, evidence that young confessional men are drawn to a denomination that is fighting, building, and carrying the gospel out in Reformed ways. The episode closes on the note that defines the whole recap. Willy reflects on the happy warriors he watched at Synod — delegates who fight hard and deliberate well, yet do it joyfully as ambassadors of a King who promised to build his church. And Jason lands the plane on the takeaway he keeps returning to: don’t wait for the denomination to do the ecclesiology work. Do it yourself, grassroots. We are called to act.

"If you've started to build a house and you recognize that the foundation is cracked and broken, you don't say, 'Well, too late to fix it now. Let's just keep building away.' No, you stop everything you're doing and you fix the foundation. Or, depending on how it's broken, you can actually build and fix it at the same time. And that's what we were asking to do: let's keep pushing forward with this church planting vision. But if we plant 150 churches that aren't reformed, that'll destroy our denomination. That's not going to be helpful." — Jason Ruis

Summary of This Episode

Jason and Willy open their annual post-Synod recap in a notably different posture than past years — not braced for a fight, but taking stock of a denomination that has largely turned a corner. Willy sets the tone early: he is relatively satisfied with Synod 2026. Like last year, it felt like a give-and-take synod, with real disappointments alongside real encouragements, but the overall trajectory left him saying what he’s heard from many others — I can’t wait till Synod 2027. Jason agrees. He was disappointed with a couple of decisions, but he’s careful to frame them as wisdom issues rather than make-or-break ones. The denomination is not heading in an unfaithful direction; the debates were mostly about where the wisest path lies and what’s worth Synod’s time at this point in the church’s life. Borrowing a line from Derek Buikema, Jason notes that this synod was marked by a willingness to just make decisions now rather than defer everything to process.

The first big encouragement is the virtual church decision. After leaving what Rob Tornstra last year called the crack of the door open, Synod 2026 acceded to the Atlantic Northeast overture and declared plainly that a church meeting exclusively online does not constitute a true church, grounding the decision in Acts and the Belgic Confession. Jason is thrilled — this is something the Messy Reformation has hammered since last synod. Willy credits Chad Steenwyk’s work as chair for framing the debate well: here’s what we’re talking about, and here’s what we’re not. The point was never about streaming a service to shut-ins or grandma; it was about confusing a digital ministry with a digital church. Because the conversation was healthier, Willy argues, the decision was healthier.

The first big disappointment is the failure of the Classis Wisconsin overture to create a study committee on Reformed ecclesiology, which went down 106 to 71. Jason’s frustration is less about the loss than about how it was lost: the whole debate collapsed into a conversation about money, set in motion when Zach King cautioned the body to be sober about commissioning study committees. The deeper irony stings. The overture was written partly because the CRC has grown overly pragmatic — Willy’s long-standing point that pragmatism is the way out of the church, not into it — and yet the floor argument against it was pure pragmatism. Cedric Parsels, whom Jason repeatedly calls a friend, spoke against the motion on the grounds that the church planting horse is already out of the gate. Jason’s response, which he promised to say on air, is blunt: the argument sounds good, but it’s crap. He reaches for a construction analogy from his building days — if you discover the foundation is cracked, you don’t keep framing the house; you fix the foundation, and you can often build and fix at the same time. Plant 150 churches that aren’t actually Reformed, he warns, and you’ll destroy the denomination. The takeaway: the Messy Reformation will spend the coming year doing the ecclesiology work itself, and Jason invites listeners who want to fund solid resources to reach out.

The episode closes on the two-year study committee on Christian nationalism. Both hosts are skeptical, not because the topic is unimportant but because no one can define the term. Willy points to a recent Rigney–Wilson–Mohler conversation in which Mohler called Christian nationalism a rebranding of the old fundamentalist label, and notes that even within Reformed circles — Kuyperians, pietists, and radical 2K guys — people are mostly talking past each other, often smuggling white nationalism and kinism into a conversation that shouldn’t include them. Jason is genuinely thankful Synod refused to adopt the overture’s proposed definition, but he expects two years of study to yield a definition that helps no one; the church is chasing a ghost. What bothers him most is the contrast: Synod commissioned a committee on a buzzword and declined one on ecclesiology, the root issue underneath so much of this. Still, he lands where he always tries to — this isn’t make-or-break, it’s wisdom, and he’ll pray the committee surprises him, even if he doubts it will.

If you’ve listened to The Messy Reformation for any length of time over the past six years, you know how I’ve felt about the Banner. I’ve been frustrated with it. I’ve discouraged people from reading it. I’ve said out loud, more than once, that when it shows up in the mailbox it goes straight in the garbage.

So getting asked to appear on the Banner’s podcast to help recap Synod 2026 was, I’ll be honest, pretty wild.

And I don’t think that’s a small thing. It says something about how much has actually shifted in the CRC. The changes we’ve prayed for and pushed for and fought for over these last several years are taking root. There’s new leadership stepping up and new voices being welcomed into the conversation.

It’s my prayer that this would be encouraging to our listeners as we keep fighting the good fight in this messy reformation.

Monday Deliberations

Tuesday Deliberations

Reformation Moving Forward

I wanted you to see these for two reasons. First, this is a great overview of what has happened the first two days of Synod. Rather than recording our own midweek update, these are helpful overviews of what has happened so far.

Second, as I already mentioned above, this is a sign that things are changing in the CRCNA. We should be on our knees thanking God for all that He has done and continually praying for reformation to continue to be carried out in the CRCNA.

Stay tuned. Later this week we’ll record our own full Synod 2026 recap for The Messy Reformation.

“Never more than ever does ecclesiology and sacraments and the ministry of the word have more relevance than in our modern technological age — those are forms of resistance.” — Chris Ganski

Summary of This Episode

For ten years, a small group of pastors in the CRC has been meeting and talking — about the denomination, about ministry, and again and again about the church. They call it the company of pastors. Chris Ganski and Derek Buikema have been at the center of it. So when Classis Wisconsin’s overture to Synod 2026 — asking the denomination to appoint a study committee on the nature of the church — hits the floor, it does not come out of nowhere. It comes out of a decade of conversation that has finally been written down.

In this episode, Chris and Derek tell Jason how the overture came together. Derek wrote the first draft. Chris made it substantially better. And the thing that struck them as they worked was simply the number of task forces the CRC has stood up around the edges of ecclesiology — the virtual church task force, the multi-church task force, the church planting conversations — without ever doing the foundational theological work of asking what a church actually is. Synod 2025 itself flagged this gap when it received the virtual church report, asking for more theological work on the nature of the church. The Wisconsin overture is that work knocking on the door.

The diagnosis is sharp. Chris names the American philosophical inheritance that has shaped CRC life more than we like to admit: pragmatism, which says the true is what works. We have not lost the doctrine of the church. We still confess it. But the practice of the church has been quietly absorbed into the domain of what works, and theology has been quarantined. Derek picks up the diagnosis with a story from his Calvin Seminary days. John Cooper told him that a generation ago, if you made a pragmatic argument at Synod, you lost. The synod would call it out and the argument would fall. Now those are the only arguments that win. The Nine Marks observation from Derek’s work in New England drives it home: the church plants that thrived in some of the hardest soil in North America were the ones rooted in rich ecclesiology. The lesson does not transfer one-for-one — Reformed ecclesiology is not Nine Marks ecclesiology — but the principle does: deep churches are planted from deep theology.

The conversation turns from diagnosis to vision. Chris keeps the bar low and the vision serious: a study committee that forces a theological conversation, that retrieves Calvin’s deep ecclesiology — election, the church as creature of the Word, the sacraments, the ministry of the Word — and reinterprets it for a secular age. He names the moment at Synod 2025 when delegates began talking about virtual communion and someone said they had not yet figured out how to do virtual baptism, and his point lands hard: at that moment, we had no idea what a sacrament was anymore. Derek’s contribution is to remind the denomination what study committees actually do. They frame conversations. Children at the Lord’s Table did. Human Sexuality did. Whether you loved the outcomes or hated them, those committees set the agenda in every CRC congregation for years. The mechanism is not mysterious. When the pastors of the church get their own hearts captivated by a serious theological reality, that reality starts working its way through every classis, every council, every congregation.

The pivot of the episode is the shift from diagnosis to posture. Chris notes that what makes this study committee different from the recent ones is that it is not trying to resolve a controversy. It is trying to articulate a positive vision. Jason names what the Messy Reformation team has been saying for months — the CRC needs to move out of a fighting phase into a building phase. Derek puts the same point in a different image: a faithful pastor knows when to fight and when to garden. There is real error to fight. But a pastor who only fights — and a denomination that only fights — eventually has nothing left to defend. It is past time to garden. To till. To plant. To cultivate. The Wisconsin overture is an invitation to garden.

Then Chris turns to Calvin — not as a museum piece but as a model. Calvin was a refugee. He fled France at twenty-five, landed in Geneva, and was forever an outsider. That experience shaped his ecclesiology. Luther and Zwingli always had a prince behind them; they could afford to think of the church as more or less continuous with the Christian commonwealth. Calvin could not. So he invented things. He established the consistory. He gave the modern diaconate its shape. He insisted that the care of the poor was not the magistrate’s job but the church’s. And from Geneva, for forty years, he sent church planters into France. Hungary, Poland, England, Scotland — the geography of the Reformed church follows the path of Calvin’s ecclesiology. Reformed mission did not come out of pragmatism. It came out of a refugee’s deep theology of what the church is.

The final word is pastoral. Chris closes by naming the anxiety that drives so much CRC ministry right now. We say with our lips that the church is God’s. We function as if it is ours. Calvin, the refugee, refused that posture. He believed the church was founded in God’s election, and that belief freed him to lead, to build, to send, to plant. The church will not stand or fall on whether this overture passes. It will not stand or fall on any of us. It is grounded in God’s action. Believe that. Lead from that. That is what reformation looks like.

“Four or five years ago, would we have guessed that anybody associated with Abide would be an officer of Synod? No way. They all had the black mark of the plague put on them. Now one of the leaders of the Abide Project is president, and we’re all kind of like, yeah, that makes sense. Of course this is where we’re at. This just points to this massive shift, and I just want to keep reminding us of it…There’s always further reformation that needs to happen, but it’s so important to remember how far we’ve come and how far things have changed…There’s a fog of reformation. You’re so in it, you’re always seeing the next hard part, and it’s easy to forget how far we’ve come.” — Jason Ruis

Summary of This Episode

It is that time of year again, folks! On this episode of the Messy Reformation, Jason and Dan break down the convening session of Synod held on May 27, the primary purpose of which is to elect the officers of Synod 2026. Chad Steenwyk, pastor of Central Avenue CRC in Holland, MI and vice-president of Synod 2023, was elected as president. Derek Buikema, pastor of Orland Park (IL) CRC, vice-president of Synod 2022, and president of Synod 2024, was elected as vice-president. Jose Rayas, pastor at Valley Ridge Community Church in Socorro, TX, vice-president of Synod 2016, first clerk of Synod 2019, and president of Synod 2022, was elected as first clerk. Dave Ten Clay, pastor at Bauer CRC in Hudsonville, MI, was elected as second clerk.

Jason and Dan agree this is a solid officer group. The major theme Jason points out is a clear shift in who’s being picked to lead the CRC in this capacity. He sees that in the fact that we weren’t surprised that leaders of The Abide Project are being elected in 2026, but it would have been surprising five years ago. He also notes those elected are part of the “new leaders” as opposed to the “institutionalists” or “old guard.” We are continuing to see shifts in the denomination of who delegates and members more broadly are seeing rise up.

Dan highlights that three of these men have been on the Messy Reformation before, and so our listeners have some familiarity with them (perhaps podcasts like ours are having some impact). He also notes, in recent years, some have alluded to the inexperience of the officers. As previous delegates and officers, there’s a lot of experience leading this year’s Synod.

Jason and Dan spend some time looking at trends in the delegate make-up. They note that Chad shared there are over 100 first-time delegates, which puts the number likely over 60% of the delegates. (If you are or know a first-time delegate, check out or share our “Prepare for Synod” links below). That’s a lot, but it also seems pretty average. Dan noted that most classes send a mix of experienced and first-time, but there are three or four classes that have four first-time and the same number that have four experienced delegates. He shares there are different ways and values that classes operate in choosing who to send. They also talk a bit about a relatively high number—at least 20 at one point—of delegates who missed the meeting. Schedules are busy this time of year, but delegates need to take this meeting and the delegation by their classis seriously.

Dan shares some insight from a recent Paul Vander Klay video about synod. Paul is the pastor of Living Stones CRC in Sacramento, CA, and has a wealth of experience in the CRC as a member, a pastor, and serving in his classis. He expects centrist delegates to pull back the reins on confessionalists this year, and so Synod won’t be too controversial. Dan sees that as a possibility, but notes confessionalists see work that still needs to be done. The fact that the votes for the officers were with confessionalist picks may be an indicator that Synod will keep moving that direction. Jason agrees and puts forth with the level of trust that’s been lost by members towards the denomination or Synod in recent history, he believes Synod is willing to step in and steer the ship where they want it.

They wrap-up talking about demographics when it comes to ethnicity and thoughts about how shifts from first-generation to second-generation immigrants may bring changes. Also, that no women allowed their names to stand or were nominated for officers, that the overall number of women sent as delegates continues to fall, may be showing some trends about local churches. Jason encourages us to pray for God’s working and delegates as they get ready in the days ahead for Synod 2026.

2025: Complete Guide: 50 Essential Tips for Delegates (Jason, Willy, and Roger Mash-up)

2024: Glorifying God through Synod Leadership (Willy) and Equipping Joyful Warriors (Jason)

2023: Final Thoughts Before Synod (Jason)

2022: Prepare for Synod with Me—General Advice (Jason and Roger), Advisory Committee Advice (Jason and Roger), and Church Order and Synodical Procedure (Jason and Roger)

Readers, this will be my last write-up as I head into my sabbatical this summer. The upcoming summaries will be supplied by AI. Lord-willing, I’ll be back in late August!

“Pray…write…read…[and] share The Banner…Write ‘Letters to the Editor’…We need to know where your God-given passion is meeting the denomination’s great need for this messy reformation.” —Lora Copley

Summary of This Episode

Jason and Willy are back this week with Rev. Lora Copley, the current interim editor and recommended editor-in-chief of The Banner. Jason invites her to share her dreams for where she sees The Banner going. Lora highlights a focus on meeting younger generations and being mindful of audio-visual-first audiences. There is a Banner podcast in the works with the first hosts being Rev. Derek Buikema (previous guest and pastor at Orland Park CRC) and Sarah Eekhoff-Zylstra (writer and editor for The Gospel Coalition). They will be unpacking the implications and decisions of Synod 2026. Along with that, Lora shares there is a plan for daily recaps of Synod with The Banner news staff. She also shares about new ways of gathering support with “Banner Builders,” similar to Patreon supporters, which would be regular donors getting some insider perks. For the longer term, she hopes to increase the amount of valued content and even being able to offer more print editions again.

Willy follows that up by asking her to share her concept and vision of how confessionalism can play out in The Banner. She shares a few unsolicited pitches that she’s received. Rev. John Medendorp from Michigan is developing a curriculum on or around the Canons of Dort for middle schoolers. Rev. Chad Werhoven is working on a summary of Christian doctrine connected to Berkhof for high schoolers. There’s a stay-at-home mom who’s writing about sustaining faith as young people get out on their own. Passing our confessional identity and passion down from one generation to the next is in the CRC make-up, and she believes it’s what people want to see in their denominational publication.

We’ve heard lots of great things from Lora, and Jason asks a bit more personal question—how she feels about going before Synod for her interview. She readily admits there’s anxiety about that. She’s energized by the day-to-day operations but interviews can be tough to keep succinct answers. Willy asks how we can be praying for her. In addition to clarity, she shares, “I would love to lay out this vision for The Banner that is…in line and aligned with the heart of the denomination, and with what we heard from Synod 2025…that really indicates the broader vision of what God is moving the denomination into.” She wants to share that The Banner can be part of helping the denomination know each other, know God, and to listen to each other.

Lora mentions with that, she hopes the quality and value of the articles will impress upon people that these should not just be tossed in the recycling can or other places. Jason encourages us, “Old habits die hard…The old habit of throwing The Banner in the recycling or the garbage, I would encourage people to take some action and try to reverse that habit and start getting in the habit of reading it.” He’s surprised to hear those words come from his mouth, but he praises God’s for his faithfulness and this change.

As the episode is wrapping up, Lora encourages people to subscribe to the weekly update (the top part enables you to subscribe to the magazine; the weekly update is a bit lower). She adds, “Pray…write…read…[and] share The Banner…Write ‘Letters to the Editor’”—she personally responds to each one. “We need to know where your God-given passion is meeting the denomination’s great need for this messy reformation.” She closes by referencing Jonathan Edwards, “‘You can’t counterfeit…exalting Christ.’” She sees the Messy Reformation as seeking to do that, and prays The Banner, the agencies, our denomination, and Synod would all be about exalting Christ.

“We [the people of God] can have a vision of a better future…God is too big, his gospel is too grand, the church is called to this…bold vision of making disciples and planting churches and of something large…He can take us far beyond our capacity and our ability…If The Banner can be part of a vision like that, then sign me up.” —Lora Copley

Summary of This Episode

On this episode of the Messy Reformation, we’ve got a returning guest who is serving in a new role—Lora Copley (Episodes 67-68). Lora has spent the last nearly six months as the interim editor of The Banner, and has now been approved by the COD to be the next editor-in-chief. She begins by describing the process up to this point. When someone asked if they could put her name into the mix, she allowed it but didn’t expect anything to come of it. When contacted and asked for her resume, she thought she’d be ruled out for being unqualified. The offer for the interim position came while she was at the Multiply conference in Florida, and she prayerfully felt called to accept it. She shares, “We [the people of God] can have a vision of a better future…God is too big, his gospel is too grand, the church is called to this…bold vision of making disciples and planting churches and of something large…He can take us far beyond our capacity and our ability…If The Banner can be part of a vision like that, then sign me up.”

Jason asks about the learning curve then, and she admits it’s been huge. Rather than taking a year of learning as one can do in a church or campus ministry context, the interim was to make changes. There was a need to be responsive to Synod 2025, which meant first, Lora needed to go back and listen to Synod 2025. She didn’t hear a call for “large, dramatic changes.” She heard a call for The Banner to give information, give articles that edify the church, stimulate critical thinking, and, “We want you to be mindful of our confessional…public-representative role that The Banner…plays by being…a front-door for different folks coming into our church…” She differentiates how CRC Communicates speaks for the denomination while The Banner speaks to, about, and she prefers “with and within the denomination.” There’s a covenantal aspect that parts of the denomination shouldn’t be overlooked or neglected.

Willy shares his appreciation for witnessing Lora’s COD interview and now getting to hear some of that shared more publicly. They talk a bit about what changed from feelings of inadequacy to now being willing to step into this more permanently. Lora shares, “Some of it was the natural, organic result of when you begin investing in something.” As she invests more, she’s felt released from other aspects of a call.

Jason asks Lora to walk us through what it looks like for an article to be published. She first sets up that there are three distinct sections to The Banner. “Our Shared Ministry” articles come from CRC Communications, and they have their own look in the print editions. Feature articles are planned a year in advance as are typically the Faith Matters, which are solicited articles. Columns are shorter and typically come from freelance writers that the editorial team reviews submissions each month. She does note, over the last six months, submissions have really ramped up, which helps in being able to provide “content that is highly valued among the denomination.” Jason asks what’s behind the uptick, and Lora shares how she’s well-networked and is reaching out intentionally to get writers. He encourages her to continue that—continue finding a wider swatch of writers across the denomination to break the echo chamber that has been perceived in the past.

“Synod needs to do two things…One…come up with a good, clear picture of who we want for our next synod president…someone confessionally-aligned, passionately Reformed, deeply theological president…And then I want synod to make a statement… ‘If you don’t bring us that president, we’re going to reject them.” —Jason Ruis

“…He is continuing to build his church, and all the human efforts will not supplant that…Rest on that as a promise, and we need to remember that we are ambassadors of the kingdom here and of the king, [and] ultimately we serve at the pleasure of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who’s given us this work that we should joyfully be wanting to do.” —Willy Krahnke

Summary of This Episode

Welcome to part 2 of The Messy Reformation’s prep with the Agenda for Synod 2026 with Jason, Willy, and Dan. Part 1 covered the Council of Delegates (COD) report and the overtures and communication connected to it as well as one of the Task Force reports. This time, we’ll look at the Task Force to Develop Church Order Procedures to Discipline Officebearers (pp. 293-314) and a number of other overtures. We share a lot of honest opinions in the audio version.

This Task Force offers a good summary of biblical, theological, historical, church order, and other denominations’ practices around discipline, and then offers three primary recommendations. Recommendation C is observing that “limited suspension” has been used recently “under unusual circumstances” and should not be a new category. Recommendation D proposes “de facto disaffiliation” for a church/council who has not followed decisions according to a given timeline. Recommendation E makes a variety of changes to Church Order Article 83 and Supplement to Articles 82-84 that recognize the authority to discipline is “ordinarily” at the local council, which opens up “in exceptional circumstances…for the well-being of a congregation” the ability for a major assembly to suspend and depose with that local council’s initiation.

Dan points out three overtures have been submitted against this Overture 34 from Eastern Canada (pp. 414-416) asks for a review that this won’t conflict with laws, particularly that local authority cannot be infringed on. The guys are in agreement with not liking this overture. Jason sums it up well—pragmatism, necessarily making sure every last law is being followed, cannot overrule God’s truth. This is something we keep seeing come out of certain parts of Canada—and we truly don’t mean to disrespect our Canadian brothers and sisters, but civil authorities cannot have the final word on our church practices. Even in America, we have to be prepared to stand on that. Overture 35 from Holland (pp. 416-420) points out nitty-gritty details that weren’t dealt with but are raised by the report. Overture 36 from British Columbia South-East (pp. 420-423) encourages letting the local assembly maintain its own discipline.

The conversation over Eastern Canada’s overture and differences in culture that have been repeatedly raised leads into looking at Overture 25 from Grand Rapids East (pp. 387-392). Our team expects a lot of discussion and attention of Synod 2026 to be on this overture which seeks to affirm the traditional Reformed understanding of Church and State, which they believe is incompatible with Christian nationalism. The definition they give is “…An ideology that seeks to merge Christian identity with national identity, asserting that a modern state has a special and divinely ordained status and that its political identity is meant to be a particular version of Christianity in which loyalty to Christ is closely bound to loyalty to a nation.” The overture explains how patriotism and civic engagement can be healthy expressions of one’s citizenship. Jason responds by reading Belgic Confession Article 36, and points out one of the issues with Christian nationalism is that there are so many definitions and connotations. One could potentially interpret Article 36 as being Christian nationalist. He does wonder, specifically to the language of the overture, is anybody [in the CRC] doing what they’re stating? Willy pushes a bit farther, raising what Jesus has taught us in the Lord’s Prayer, “‘Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.’ What are you praying for in that petition?...How is God’s will done in heaven?…[Christ] has perfect rule and authority in heaven, and we’re asking for that to be done here on earth as well.” This is a pretty delicate matter that we’ll have to see how Synod deals with it.

Next, we turn to overture 33 from Classis Wisconsin (pp. 411-414), which requests a study committee on Reformed ecclesiology. Dan highlights from the overture that it recognizes our context of wanting to address decline and growth, but proposes we need to look at the nature of church and churches first—we need to get back to the basics. Jason highlights the various things that recent synods have been dealing with, usually pragmatically, that could be or could have been served well: assisted suicide task force to give guidance and pastoral advice, church order review task force, in loco committee to address covenant breaking, appeals process task force, virtual church task force, multisite church task force, officebearer discipline procedures task force, membership definitions (p. 412). Dan offers a small hesitation—this sounds good, but how would the information get down to the local church and expressed to them? Jason recognizes it’s probably something “we” need to do—that’s a big we, not just The Messy Reformation, but classes and pastors and officebearers, we’ve got to do the work more than the denomination.

There is some conversation that follows related to overtures 7-9 (submitted by a member of Covenant Life Church (Grand Haven); a member of Christ Community Church (Tualatin, OR); and Classis GR East) to change or undo recent decisions around gravamen (pp. 340-355). Jason and Willy speak for the three of us, “…Why are we still having this conversation? It’s been done.” “…These are all out of order, and should be rejected as such.”

Dan gives his “spicy” take (that really shouldn’t be) in support of Overture 6 from Classis Iakota (p. 340), which essentially calls for confessional integrity for employees in various areas/organizations of the CRC. It shouldn’t be that hard for confessionally-aligned CRC members to be who works for and in our denomination. Jason also ties in overture 15 regarding Calvin Theological Seminary’s Board of Trustees, overture 15 regarding Calvin University’s faculty, and overture 17 regarding Calvin University’s Board of Trustees—all from Illiana—that these people must be confessionally aligned and willing to sign on to that (pp. 363-371). Jason highlights a normal organizational practice, which would make sense in a denomination, is the higher up you are, the more closely you should hold to the principles and doctrines. Dan highlights some of the nitty-gritty involved in Overture 15 that Classis Illiana lays out around regular and adjunct faculty, and the potential dangers they voice. Jason follows this by bringing up overture 18 from Classis Georgetown (pp. 371-372), which asks Synod to articulate the desired qualities in the next president of Calvin Seminary. He summarizes it well, “Synod needs to do two things…One…come up with a good, clear picture of who we want for our next synod president…someone confessionally-aligned, passionately Reformed, deeply theological president…And then I want synod to make a statement… ‘If you don’t bring us that president, we’re going to reject them.”

Willy says something that brings us into some observations about the State of the CRC, “[Confessional integrity should be] a pretty basic take…That shouldn’t be something that we have as an option; it’s something that is an absolute…a requirement…ought to be excited about.” Dan admits looking through the agenda, these overtures, and our comments, there’s a nervousness in how we’re talking. It feels spicy or confrontational, when a lot of this really shouldn’t. Jason points out the controversial nature of the takes offered here are no where near the confrontations of the 1950s when boards were turned over by Synod or going back to the previous centuries. However, when you haven’t done discipline or exercised authority in quite some time, any attempt to do so feel like “crashing out”—it makes people think, “Settle down.” Realistically, we don’t’ think what we’re encouraging is all that crazy, though.

We arrive at the conclusion of our preparation episodes. Dan encourages delegates and observers alike to not think this is a “getting back to normal” synod. The agenda is not overly lengthy, but it is dense. So, he encourages delegates to do the work: read, think, connect with each other, know what’s behind these, and know you’re being prayed for. Willy reminds us of the big picture: the vision that we should be holding up first and foremost is Christ’s. “…He is continuing to build his church, and all the human efforts will not supplant that…Rest on that as a promise, and we need to remember that we are ambassadors of the kingdom here and of the king, [and] ultimately we serve at the pleasure of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who’s given us this work that we should joyfully be wanting to do.”

“The best way to fund anything is not to try to make people feel guilty about it. What if our denomination was doing things that churches were excited to give them money for?...The reality is we don’t have any vision. We don’t know where we’re going. Churches don’t know where their money is going…[The denomination] is not taking the signal that we need to change gears.” —Jason Ruis

Summary of This Episode

This week on the Messy Reformation, we have an extended episode as Jason, Willy, and Dan begin a tour through the Agenda for Synod 2026 and some of the significant matters before the delegates. For them and our listeners, this is not a synod to sleep on. There are a lot of technical recommendations and overtures that have the potential to greatly inform what our denomination looks like as we turn to the future. We aren’t going through every single page or recommendation, but these are things we consider to be significant. The bulk of this episode focuses on the Council of Delegates (COD) report (pp. 19-124) and their 27 recommendations.

Dan first points out a significant series is Recommendations E through I regarding the Dignity Team (pp. 34-36). This is a fairly new group that has existed in an experimental capacity to help bring support to those who have experienced abuse of power and church hurt. While they haven’t had a lot of cases, the Dignity Team and COD have found the work to be valuable, and there is a request for a five year extension.

He then jumps to Recommendation K, which asks Synod to approve a Saturday to Saturday schedule for synod starting next year (p. 36). The current setup is Thursday to Thursday, and Dan questions if this shift is really wise given delegates would just start their work and then have the Lord’s Day off. Jason and Willy agree and see the likeliness of delegates wanting to get into the work that they have come to do on that off day. This seems to undermine something we’ve valued as a denomination in the name of trying to make it easier for elders and deacons to attend by only requiring time off from their jobs in the span of one traditional workweek. While we understand it’s hard and takes sacrifice to be a delegate, this doesn’t seem to be a biblically-sound recommendation.

We then turn to Recommendation O, which asks for changes to the Rules for Synodical Procedure including getting rid of the parliamentarian appointment, moving the study committee report distribution deadline to December 1, adding the director of ecclesiastical governance to the Program Committee, and others (pp. 42-43). Dan notes regarding the director of ecclesiastical governance—this would be policy coming into alignment with current practice. Jason and Willy both wonder if this is wise, though. Might there be benefit to a more independent Program Committee. It seems like this goes against the spirit of the Program Committee being those who have been voted to function in this capacity, and the influence of the institution.

Next up, we look at Recommendations P and Q that have to do with the Office of General Secretary mandates regarding providing materials for limited suspension and the supervision and release of pastors to be completed, and for a removal of classes having to report on limited suspension processes (p. 43). Dan wonders if the ending of these reports is based on timelines set by a previous synod, but is it a good idea? If there are still people in these processes, then it doesn’t seem smart to end the reporting. Willy agrees and, as a COD member, he voted against this.

That takes us to Recommendations Y and Z, which deal with cost-cutting ideas, especially related to establishing a task force to review classis structure and potential consolidations as well as biennial synods (pp. 46-47). Dan gives credit to the COD or the committee that worked on this—they did look into a variety of options. They considered cutting costs by biennial synods and reducing the number of delegates, as well as fundraising efforts by mandating governance assessments. As we’ve talked about before on The Messy Reformation, they are encouraging having synods every other year, and having COD pick up more of the work between the Synods. We don’t like that.

There are a number of overtures that deal with what’s proposed here at the end of the COD report (Overtures 26-32 and Communication 1, pp. 392-410, 424). Overtures 26 (Heartland), 27 (Minnkota), 28 (Holland), and 29 (Georgetown) speak against the biennial synod recommendation (FYI: there are no overtures or communications in support of the recommendation). Minnkota does a great job of pointing out that the financial savings won’t be as significant as the COD report seems to make it—both for the off years, but also we’re likely to end up needing longer synod meetings which will impact the ability of delegates to commit time and increase costs of each synod meeting. Dan also draws a connection to Overture 5 (Zeeland), which would require all on the Council of Delegates to be current or former officebearers, since they are doing the work of Synod, which requires officebearers. Minnkota points out that it’s questionable to give even more work that currently belongs to Synod to a body (the COD) that does not have the same requirements. Classis Holland points out with what we’ve been going through, “…Our denomination needs to come together regularly to rebuild trust and unity….” Georgetown’s overture also captures and expands on those aspects.

The remaining overtures that connect with the COD report call for financial transparency and consideration of different systems of funding/ministry shares that would obligate paying at least certain amounts. Communication 1 wonders if paying should be necessary to participate in classis and synod meetings. Dan points out some aspects of this have been in place in the past, but these would be big changes for today.

Jason speaks passionately about whether it’s really a good idea in the current setting of our denomination—a denomination in decline, hurting for money—to force people to pay. He shares, “…The best way to fund anything is not to try to make people feel guilty about it. What if our denomination was doing things that churches were excited to give them money for?...The reality is we don’t have any vision. We don’t know where we’re going. Churches don’t know where their money is going…[The denomination] is not taking the signal that we need to change gears.” He also points to the “bureaucratic bloat in the CRC.” Instead of telling the people of the denomination, “We need you to give so we can keep doing all this stuff,” we need budget specifics and we need to get rid of some things.

After exploring this for a while, Dan moves the conversation past the Reports of Agencies, Institutions, and Ministries (pp. 125-194) and Standing Committees (pp. 195-238) to the Synodical Task Forces (pp. 239-314). The rest of the episode focuses on the Defining Membership Task Force (pp. 255-271), which there are differences of opinion about on the Messy Reformation Team. At the heart of this Task Force’s mandate is looking at if and what is the difference in confessional commitment between a professing member of a CRC congregation and an officebearer. The report acknowledges at different times in our denomination’s history and in different liturgical forms, the confessional agreement is explicitly the same. But there have been other times when the spoken or unspoken culture was much looser on members. The recommendations essentially come out in favor of creedal agreement—members agree to what’s in the Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds, but do not require confessional agreement—full agreement to the Belgic Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, and Canons of Dort. They do also recommend encouraging discipleship in the confessions as members can continue to grow.

Dan continues to be a strong proponent of creedal and confessional agreement among members, and he prefers for churches to slow down or not rush into making members. Let’s spend the time in formation—let’s do better. We may have flip-flopped in the past, but let’s grow out of that. Willy agrees, though, he does recognize there’s an argument out there that a “common believer” may not understand deep doctrines. He sees a way, though, for people to have a “difference in understanding” without a “difference in commitment.” Jason is a bit more open to the creedal argument, especially from a context where not many understood Reformed theology. He shares that he’s been wrestling with pragmatic versus biblical arguments—is there a reason to keep a genuine believer from being a member? Dan wonders aloud about the potential of a two or three-tier membership—tier one would be you are a Christian, tier two would be you are Reformed, and tier three would be for officebearers–but right now, we don’t have the resources created for that. We’re interested to see where that Advisory Committee goes.

Join us next time as we look at the Task Force to Develop Church Order Procedures to Discipline Officebearers and a lot more overtures.

“All the discussions we have really hinge on our understanding of the authority of the Scripture and an accurate understanding of it…We need to keep the central theme of Scripture controlling everything…We need to keep understanding the fullness of the biblical message…the unity of the Old and New Testaments…We’re not just New Testament Christians; we’re biblical Christians.” —Lee Christoffels

Summary of This Episode

Due to unexpected scheduling conflicts, this week on the Messy Reformation is a re-run of episode 97, which brings us back to Jason and Willy’s conversation with Rev. LeRoy (Lee) Christoffels from late 2022. To this day, Lee continues to serve in retirement as an associate pastor with preaching and visiting responsibilities at First CRC of Edgerton (MN) as well as regularly providing pulpit supply at other churches. Prior to retirement, he served five congregations in Iowa, southern California, New Jersey, and southwest Minnesota.

As one of our oldest guests, Jason asks what joys Lee has found throughout the last fifty-plus years in ministry. Lee shares that he still loves preaching and the challenges that can come with it. He’s loved being able to watch people come to know the Bible and what the Reformed faith is, and to see them grow through different stages of life and even multiple generations.

That leads to a conversation between Jason and Lee encouraging longer pastorates (25-30 years). While Lee admits he sometimes wishes he’d stuck around in some places longer, that wasn’t the general culture in our denomination. He points out that being with a church for that long forces the pastor to preach on things they wouldn’t get to in the typical ten years or less call. He does share, though, “Some of us just don’t have the staying power…But there is a great advantage in staying and seeing through peoples’ lives and being used by the Lord to mold their lives in a good direction.”

Jason moves on to remind us that the 1970s, especially the early years, were a weighty time in the CRC, and asks Lee to share what he remembers and to compare it to the present. Lee identifies each CRC looked more like others, but the cultural shifts of the ‘60s really began changing that, which continued into the ‘70s. In the denomination, biblical authority and the infallibility of Scripture were being seriously questioned, but not everyone went along with that. There was a gradual pressure on the church that effected other things, including the debates over women in office.

Zooming out, Lee also notes history is always connected. Some of what bled into the early years of the CRC when Dutch immigrants came to the United States around the 1850s was the secession in the Dutch church in the 1830s. That involved attitudes towards confessional subscription, which wavered as time has gone on. Looking back at our Synod in 2022, he saw clarity again that he hoped would continue.

Some of the clarity and confusion in the last five years or so has been around the understanding of what it means to be “Reformed.” The confessional contingency has at times been accused of being fundamentalist and just like Baptists. The more progressive side champions the idea of “always reforming.” Lee points out, change is great, but it has to be us being molded to Scripture and repenting of our sin. Willy acknowledges that we need to remember the whole phrases. “Reformed and always reforming according to the Word of God.”

Lee sees unity around our Confessions—the Three Forms of Unity—being a strength and blessing for us. The Confessions are not over Scripture, but they continue to help guide our understanding of Scripture because we believe what’s in them is from Scripture. Especially as we become a more ethnically diverse denomination, the Confessions are a much better thing to unify around than simply an ethnic origin and can help shape faithful practices.

One of the last big topics in this episode is Lee sharing, “To be Reformed is to be catholic.” He explains that the Reformers wanted to clean up and help the Catholic church come back to the catholic (unified) faith, not “the Roman faith.” As they continue to talk about the need for such a reformation today, Lee names the primary problem facing the church today is exegesis, interpretation, and the authority of God’s Word. “All the discussions we have really hinge on our understanding of the authority of the Scripture and an accurate understanding of it…We need to keep the central theme of Scripture controlling everything…We need to keep understanding the fullness of the biblical message…the unity of the Old and New Testaments…We’re not just New Testament Christians; we’re biblical Christians.” He also offers a great resource in Catherine Vos’ The Child’s Story Bible, which Jason adds a seminary professor referenced this as “the best example of redemptive-historical story-telling”—good for any age!

“Every church is an outpost of the kingdom. So are we doing a good job supporting the outposts of the kingdom? That’s the challenge we really face today.” — Matt Haan

Summary of This Episode

Welcome back to part 2 of the Messy Reformation Roundtable with Rev. Dan De Graff and Rev. Matt Haan. The guys have been talking statistics of pastoral vacancies and declining church sizes that raise the need for someone to do something. The theme throughout this episode is challenging classes to be that that someone. Matt brings up the necessity for classes to live into Church Order Article 75a—classes are to have ministry plans. He goes beyond just looking ahead, though; we also need to know why our classis came into existence and what the churches in that classis exist for.

Dan brings up that this work of involving classes in the lives of their congregations in such strategic ways is not easy. People often do not want to change because of legacy, which can take the shape of family, classmate connections, “how things have always been.” Particularly in small communities and small churches, he and Matt agree the pride in a survivor-mentality—“we can make it through anything”—is an admirable quality but it can also bring up distrust to those outside. Dan highlights that classes may need to designate, if not employ, people to do this work—“It’s really hard to pastor your own church and come alongside one or two other churches and be…involved in revitalizing them.” If we’re shifting to multi-site ministry/pastoring, that’s a mindset shift for CRC ministers and churches.

The conversation turns to important points in the lifespan of churches. Matt shares he sees churches hitting the 50-year and 100-year marks and struggling to have vision at those points. The founders or planters are aging or have died, what next? The current group has to discern what they exist for? Jason shares his experience is a little earlier—the 40-year mark can be tumultuous. Dan points out when you think of the last 40 years in the CRC, it’s been tumultuous and unsettling. We have the women in church office decisions and splits in the 1990s, the HSR in the early 2020s, and classis renewal efforts were kicking off in the 2010s but go sidelined by that as well as COVID. To think about not just one’s church but being part of the CRC with all this going on, it’s a difficult reality.

Dan and Matt both see the importance of pastors, along with elders, deacons, and lay members, understanding they have a duty. They share, “You have this duty to help the other churches around you…You have this duty…to the classis [and] to the Lord…Every church is an outpost of the kingdom…Are we doing a good job supporting the outposts of the kingdom?...Classes are territories for us to care about.” Jason reminds listeners that anyone can get a demographic study of a community through Resonate Global Mission (MissionInsite in the U.S. and Outreach Canada in Canada).

The group highlights that in planting new churches and revitalizing old ones, we need to look at resources, passionate individuals, and strategy—all while trusting God to be at work. We can look to partner or trust other denominations and churches to do good work in communities, but where there is weakness or dysfunction in our churches or classes, we can’t be afraid to ask for and receive help. Dan shares the need to continue building trust and recognizing the support of people who have been successful in something, including as Jason shares, the importance of people providing vision. Matt closes it out challenging classes to take honest looks at themselves and see where work is needed.

“Christians in general hate to get rid of anything. One of the biggest things I had to do as a church revitalizer was to kill programs that were dead and nobody was willing to let them die…The CRC, as part of our own broader revitalization, needs to be able to have those kinds of conversations about churches…I would really encourage the CRC to focus on church planting AND renewal.” — Jason Ruis

Summary of This Episode

On this edition of the Messy Reformation Roundtables, Jason and Willy are joined by Rev. Dan De Graff and Rev. Matt Haan, pastor at First CRC of Rock Valley, for a conversation that seems like nobody wants to talk about—the realities behind the pastor shortage and declining membership in churches.

Dan kicks things off sharing from data he’s been tracking over the last decade. As of the recording, there are about 913 churches in the CRCNA (churches known to be well into a disaffiliation process are not part of that). Of those churches, 692 are in the United States and 221 in Canada—so, roughly 3:1 or 75% in the US and 25% in Canada. When it comes to sole or lead/senior pastor vacancies, there are 107-128. The low number is those that have become vacant in the last five calendar years and the higher number includes congregations that have been vacant even back into the 1990s. By percentage, 12-14% of our churches are vacant.

While not great—certainly showing a shortage—to break those down by country shows a bigger problem. 57-71 of the vacancies are in the U.S., meaning 8-10% of churches south of the border are looking for pastors. 50-57 of the vacancies are in Canada meaning 23-26% of churches north of the border are without a primary pastor.

Dan highlights Calvin Theological Seminary and Candidacy have been focused on raising up new leaders—the denomination is not ignorant of that, but how are we genuinely living into our binational identity when for such a significant portion of our denomination 1 in 4 churches remains without pastors? Both he and Matt believe, and Jason and Willy agree, classes and the denomination have a responsibility here.

Matt goes a step further and proposes when looking at the lifecycle of a church, churches need to consider not just how to find a pastor but are they in a place to find one. This spurs a discussion around churches with declining membership needing to consider a revitalization, replanting, or closing process. As the CRC has a revitalized passion for church planting, what about all these churches we already have?

Jason clarifies some of the terms. Planting a church typically means a new building, new location, and a new congregation (possibly with a core already established). Revitalization takes something that already is and seeks renewal. To replant is a hard work—to take an existing congregation, possibly close, and re-plant a church there. Matt builds on this saying closing is something more churches need to think about—not to disparage small churches or to communicate failure, but have circumstances or context so changed that their season is concluded? Connected to vacancies, it may be inappropriate to call a pastor.

Willy asks if we’re using numeric benchmarks, how long should a church be at a certain point to change statuses? The group agrees that’s difficult to pinpoint. Every church is different. Every setting is different. Rural churches in truly small towns are willing to stick it out for decades. Sometimes small numeric growth with some changes can yield a lot of life. Sometimes a fight will have such irreconcilable damage that a sizable congregation can be decimated fairly quickly. This is where classes can have such a strong impact. Especially through good church visitors, that’s where hard but caring conversations can happen.

Willy also asks what the benefits and negatives are if a church would come under care of another church and council. What he’s referencing is Church Order Article 38d and its supplement. A council and congregation can decide to revert to unorganized status (effectively, emerging—the same category of a church plant in the CRC), and a classis should help consider that if and when membership is below 45, unable to provide for leadership, or unable to meet financial obligations. Jason notes it can be really healthy to see a healthy church’s leadership and life. He truly sees it, not as a punishment, but to bring health, resources, and discernment.

Matt builds on that with the desire to develop and have clearer terminology and paths in the CRC. If churches can be categorized by “plant,” “emerging,” “organized,” “revitalization,” “replant,” and “closed,” it would help churches know where they are and what they should be doing. There could be a change of attitude from just thinking with self-pity about size or failure. Dan adds that we need to take this seriously. Church planting often gets deemed as the “sexy” work, but this is necessary work, too. Jason highlights there should be a focus on both church planting and church revitalization. He’s seen in Baptist circles the desire to “increase the number of planted churches and decrease the number of dying churches.” One of the ways you decrease the dying, though, is to end or kill things that are already dead—whether that’s in churches or denominational organizations. Willy concludes the conversation this time with a parting shot on the Dutch “don’t throw away” mentality—sometimes we need to throw away or end so we can focus elsewhere well.

“You’ll never rise to a higher level in your public prayer life than what you’re doing in your private prayer life…You’ll never rise to a higher level in your preaching than in your own personal reading of God’s word…If we are in the word, we can bring the word. If we are in prayer, we can lead in prayer. If we’re walking beside people that the Holy Spirit is bringing to life—those are the things we’re called to.” — Harry Frielink

Summary of This Episode

Back on The Messy Reformation podcast this week, we have Willy and Rev. Harry Frielink, pastor at Covenant CRC in Barrie, ON. Throughout this episode, we get to hear about some of Harry’s theological influences or inspirations. Early on, working in camp ministry, he credits the training of Matthew Kingswood, a Reformed Presbyterian pastor, to be in the Word. He also has also appreciated Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s encouragement to do life together. Along the way, he’s found books on being a disciplined Christian and the personal nature of God has helpful.

Another voice has been Paul David Tripp, whose book “Dangerous Calling” he references when Willy asks about struggles. One of the biggest struggles that he’s faced and many pastors face is being in and nurturing friendships with the body of believers rather than feeling outside or above. Harry stresses the importance of having friends and modeling good Christian friendship. He also notes balancing being a pastor while also honoring the calling of husband and father.

Harry prompts conversation around two of the major divisive topics in the CRCNA over the last 30 or so years—human sexuality and the women in ecclesiastical office decisions. When it comes to women as elders and pastors, he points out that can be a difficult thing to navigate in some congregations, while others don’t wrestle much with that. In terms of the Human Sexuality Report (HSR), he saw it not as wanting to just have a culture war over homosexuality, but rather an opportunity to speak to the whole spectrum of human sexuality, recognizing where there is sin and brokenness, and seeing how the gospel addresses it. He sees how the CRC dealt with these two things as being different. Willy adds, though, there is an important piece of how one’s view of the authority of Scripture factors in and having that inform our opinions rather than experience. We need to be charitable, but know what our foundation is.

Harry’s been to Synod twice, back in the early 2010s, as a Classis Huron delegate, but has followed Synods closely in recent years. He’s thankful, while somewhat surprised at what’s gone on. He mentions Paul Vander Klay’s commentary capturing how the establishment of the CRC and The Banner may have viewed conservatives as present but quiet in the aftermath of the women in office decisions of the 1990s, but that’s changed in last decade. He’s thankful to see young pastors taking a stand as well as laypeople. He and Willy agree the third mark of the church likely will continue to come up, but it is much larger conversation around discipleship and discipline. We need to be walking with people to know how to handle that well. As he looks at Classis Toronto as well, he names the steep decline in membership over the last 20 years, but he sees the present being a time where those who are left recognize it’s time to get to work on the discipleship and evangelism fronts.

His final words are an encouragement to “blow on the live embers.” He describes that, especially for pastors, as needing to make sure we give priority to where and who the Spirit may be working on. Harry would have us listen and walk with people, remain in God’s Word if we are to bring God’s Word, and remain praying if we are to lead people in prayer.

“I feel the church as much as the seminary was a training ground for me. I didn’t expect the seminary to prepare me in ways that a school can’t—but the church should.” —Harry Frielink

Summary of This Episode

This week on the Messy Reformation, Willy is joined by Rev. Harry Frielink, pastor at Covenant Christian Reformed Church in Barrie, ON. Harry previously served Exeter CRC, also in southern Ontario, though his seminary experience brought him into the U.S. He began his MDiv. Studies at Reformed Theological Seminary (RTS) in Charlotte, NC. He shares a deep appreciation for the systematic theology courses, which were deep but always included a pastoral application, as well as the biblical studies courses. While he grew up in the RCA, “home” for his calling was the desire to serve in a Dutch immigrant community. He attended Calvin Theological Seminary, which broadened his connection to others in our denomination, and he also valued how it prepared him for ministry in the CRC.

One of the themes in Harry’s responses is a strong experience as an elder himself in the past and inviting the elders in his charge to also be involved in ministry. Before becoming a pastor, his service as an elder involved him in leading some worship services and teaching Catechism. He goes on to share that his ministry at Covenant has brought him into relationship with especially new or young Christians, but he can’t do all the work himself. He feels appreciated by the church and their desire has been for teaching and preaching to be his primary focus. He enjoys that as well as helping nurture others, but it takes committed leaders ministering together.

Willy invites Harry to share about his classical experience and involvement. Harry is in Classis Toronto, which has had its fair share of public “controversies” in recent decades. He frames it well, “Some of the challenges would definitely include a reticence to really engaged in the theological issues behind the controversies in the Christian Reformed Church.” He’s seen good conversation shift “political.” While they’ve struggled with that as a classis, he sees that more broadly in the denomination as well. There’s this wrestling with wanting to engage in ministry together but the deliberative aspect of classis and synod has been lacking. Willy and Harry spend some time also talking about recent disaffiliations and the weighty nature of those processes; while often expected, those don’t make anyone happy and Willy points out the necessity of love, charity, and boldness in the process.

The guys also get into what they’ve seen and learned about the CRC. Harry points out a generational shift in home and church. Growing up in the RCA and seeing the CRC, he appreciated the devotion to God’s Word and practicing family devotions. He cites in the past that there seemed to be a greater knowledge of Scripture and the confessions that has decreased over time. He’s hopeful about the direction of the CRC, and the change of course to prioritize those in recent years. Culturally and practically, though, it will take some work to strengthen individual commitments in those areas.

Join us next time as we hear more about struggles and changes in the CRC as well as pastoral ministry.

“The reality is, in a church, people want to be fed by the same hand that’s holding their hand next to the bedside…What I mean is the person that they see on Sunday morning is the same person they want to be visiting them and caring for them and walking alongside of them in…whatever their struggle may be.” —Shaun Furniss

Summary of This Episode

Welcome back to part 2 of Jason’s conversation with Rev. Shaun Furniss, one of the co-pastors of Trinity CRC in Sparta, MI. We pick up the conversation around Christian counseling and pastoral care, which continues throughout this whole episode as well, addressing the relationship of a pastor with their elders. One of the difficulties pastors often express is feeling alone and having no one to share what’s going on in ministry with. To bring everything home to a spouse is inappropriate and can cause problems for one’s spouse as a member of a congregation. However, in our polity, pastors can and should develop relationships with their elders by which they can share when they are feeling overwhelmed. It’s not just for the pastor to open up, but it’s teaching the elders how to do ministry as well and that the pastor values their contributions.

Jason takes it a step further, and asks Shaun what advice he would give to pastors and elders who are trying to care well for their congregation. Shaun’s response may remind listeners of what we heard from the recent STM roundtable—get to know your people, your districts, and simply be approachable. We should be showing those we’re shepherding that they are not just “a congregant,” but we know who they are, we know their name, we care about them.” He shares that CCEF (Christian Counseling & Educational Foundation) has solid, biblical, practical materials that are worth checking out, and encourages doing the work of looking for local resources. Whether in your church or known by other churches around you, counseling and care shouldn’t feel like something we need to do alone. Jason alludes to a quote from John Calvin who said the care of souls is so overwhelming that it’s not to be done on one’s own; that burden care speaks to why God’s given the church elders.

The conversation turns to the necessity and value of relationships between those being counseled or cared for and those who are doing that. Shaun points out how even in the co-pastor arrangement at Trinity, it’s less about specialized roles and more about sharing the responsibility. He shares, “The reality is, in a church, people want to be fed by the same hand that’s holding their hand next to the bedside…What I mean is the person that they see on Sunday morning is the same person they want to be visiting them and caring for them and walking alongside of them in…whatever their struggle may be.” He later states, “It’s that horizontal element to that relationship where you’re building the relationship with them, but ultimately you’re pointing them to a relationship with Christ (the vertical relationship). He’s the One who’s going to ultimately transform their heart. He’s the One who’s going to help break that addiction. He’s the One who’s going to remove their sin. He’s the one who’s going to relieve that guilt and that loneliness and those sort of things that we struggle with…So…we need to make sure that we’re maintaining the balance.” He goes on to highlight the importance of being aware and avoiding a savior complex.

Jason puts that in terms of actual pastoral care relationships that he’s had—namely, young people who’ve contemplated and attempted to suicide. He talks about how that can, understandably, keep you awake at night and feel so overwhelming. He’s had to heed the advice of a well-seasoned pastor who reminded him to rely on the Lord as the fixer of problems, not ourselves. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care, but sometimes we do need to go to bed, to get necessary sleep, and trust God will work. Shaun beautifully reminds us that’s a way to rely on the baptismal promises of God. He has called us to shepherd his flock, but we are shepherding them to him. The guys agree—pastoral ministry, and God through it, will humble you over and over again, causing us to rely on and cry out to the Lord.

Jason shares a final thought from a book on prayer that framed prayer as flowing from helplessness. People are more likely to pray when they feel helpless, and they are likely to have prayerless times when they don’t think they need help. He’s learned, though, we’re always helpless and not in control—that shouldn’t drive us to fear, but to a powerful God who provides for and leads us. Shaun gives an example of a time when he’s flipped the idea “God’s not going to give me more than I can handle” to “God won’t give you anything that he can’t handle. He uses these often heartbreaking, difficult circumstances to show his power and his grace and his healing hand in these very difficult circumstances.” Shaun closes by expressing gratitude for the ministry of The Messy Reformation and opening listeners’ eyes to the work God is doing throughout the CRC. He reminds us again, “…When it comes to pastoral care...people don’t care what you know until they know that you care, and the more that you can build those relationships to build a bridge upon which the gospel can then go across, that’s truly where you get to see the beauty of God working.”

“True Christian counseling, I think, is at its core, it’s discipleship. It’s taking the gospel and applying it to the unique pains, hurts, and sins of an individual, and then walking them to the cross…When you walk into that room where you’re counseling someone, you’re not the true counselor. The Holy Spirit is, and he’s given us his word. That is the means by which he is going to bring that healing.” — Shaun Furniss

Summary of This Episode

What does it mean to truly care for the souls of people in your congregation? In this first part of a two-episode conversation, Jason sits down with Pastor Shaun Furniss of Trinity CRC in Sparta, Michigan, to dig into the often neglected art of pastoral care and counseling. Shaun brings a background unlike most pastors in the CRC. He did not grow up in the church. His first experience was a Roman Catholic mass in second grade, where he was enthralled by the transcendent beauty of what he saw. A season of involvement there gave way to confusion and distance when he couldn’t reconcile the theology at his confirmation class. It was not until a college Bible study led him through the Heidelberg Catechism that the Lord drew him to faith.

That background, along with an early crisis when a teenager disclosed a suicide attempt to him within his first months as a youth director, pushed Shaun toward serious training in pastoral counseling. He went on to earn a Master’s in Marriage and Family Therapy and Counseling alongside his Master of Divinity from Reformed Theological Seminary in Jackson, Mississippi. Today he serves as co-pastor at Trinity CRC, splitting all pastoral responsibilities 50-50 with long-tenured Pastor CJ den Dulk—a model that reflects a deep conviction that the care of souls cannot be done by one man alone.

The conversation quickly moves to the heart of the matter: what is Christian counseling, really? Shaun makes the case plainly. True Christian counseling is discipleship. It is taking the gospel and applying it to the unique pains, hurts, and sins of an individual, walking them to the cross, and helping them in their walk with the Lord. Shaun affirms this without hesitation. All pastoral care, he says, is just discipleship.

But there is a problem. The church has largely abdicated this work. The default move in too many congregations—and in too many seminaries—is to farm it out. And when you do that, you hand your congregant over to someone whose worldview you may not know, whose objectives may differ from yours, and whose methods may actively undermine what the gospel requires. Shaun is blunt about what he’s seen: what often passes for Christian counseling is humanistic counseling with a prayer at the end. He estimates only about 10% of counselors he has encountered meet the standard he would feel comfortable recommending. The seminary culture that shaped many current pastors gave them one class on pastoral care and one running joke: just refer it out.

Shaun argues that pattern is a delinquency of responsibility. Even when outside help is warranted—in cases of abuse, or when counseling someone of the opposite sex—the pastor remains the shepherd of the soul. You bring someone alongside. You do not hand off and walk away.

But what does good pastoral care actually look like in practice? The biggest misconception pastors carry, Shaun says, is that they need to have the answer immediately. They walk into a counseling situation feeling pressure to solve. But before any solution can land, trust must be built. People don’t care what you know until they know that you care. The person who comes to you in pain is not a transmission that needs to be fixed. They want to be heard, understood, known. When that relational foundation is laid, the truth you eventually speak will actually be believed.

Shaun frames the core of pastoral counseling around four root issues: guilt, fear, anger, and loneliness. Every situation is unique, every story has variables—but at bottom, nearly everyone who comes for help is wrestling with one of these. And the scriptures give us the answers to all four.

The episode closes on what may be its most striking moment. Shaun reflects on his experience as a hospice chaplain during seminary and the lesson that has never left him: the ministry of presence. People don’t always need the right thing said to them. They need someone to be there. One of the evil one’s primary tactics in suffering is isolation—convincing people that no one knows what they are going through, no one has been where they are. The presence of a pastor, a shepherd, someone who walks in and says, “I’m not going away—I don’t know every step either, but we’re going to walk this together”—that presence is itself healing.

And when the situations are overwhelming? The true counselor is the Holy Spirit. He has given us his Word as the means of healing. The pastor is simply the instrument. “I’ve never fixed anyone, I’ve never saved anyone, but by the grace of God, he’s allowed me to be a part of what he’s doing.”

“…If people are worried that the people they don’t trust are going off the deep end in terms of loving and wanting to follow the Scriptures…you have to…remind each other…hopefully, they are wanting to be loyal to the Bible. Some of their fears may be unfounded…Talk to each other instead of about each other…And then pray, pray, pray…Get people to pray together…for each other and not just about each other.” —Roger Sparks

Summary of This Episode

On this episode of The Messy Reformation, we pick up part two of the roundtable with Revs. Harv Roosma and Roger Sparks, Specialized Transitional Ministers (STMs) in the CRCNA. While not every church that an STM is called into is a “problem church,” there are some. As we’ve heard the role of the STM is listening and helping, including being equipped for difficult conversations, Jason asks about churches that aren’t as ready as they might have thought to engage those conversations. Harv offers the wisdom of when that happens, it takes some time, trust, and persistence. Both he and Roger note there are times when disagreement arises. Roger shares, “…One of our goals is…if people disagree, I want them to understand why they disagree and why the other person sees things their way.” While they’re not always able to nurture that understanding or trust, it’s a beautiful thing when successful.

Jason follows up by asking what some of the common issues that STMs regularly encounter are. Roger kicks it off with one that’s “easy”—communication. When people aren’t trusting or talking with each other in a church, there’s likely to be problems. Harv adds to that significant decline in attendance, gender matters, undertrained leadership, and ambiguity of vision. All, or at least many, of these can tie back into communication and trust issues. So, Jason asks how churches can work on trust, to which Roger responds essentially you have to care about the person you’ve had differences with. “…If people are worried that the people they don’t trust are going off the deep end in terms of loving and wanting to follow the Scriptures…you have to…remind each other…hopefully, they are wanting to be loyal to the Bible. Some of their fears may be unfounded…Talk to each other instead of about each other…And then pray, pray, pray…Get people to pray together…for each other and not just about each other.”

We hear a lot about the difficult situations, and so Willy asks what the joys of being an STM are. Harv names first the relationships that are nurtured quickly and “developing trust and helping people to talk honestly,” including about such important things as forgiveness. Roger adds to that the joy, or honor, of being someone who others share their troubles, trials, and joys to. Following up on Harv’s point, “You come as strangers, and through the miracle of the gospel and fellowship, you leave as friends…That’s a great joy, I love it.”

Dan invites Harv and Roger to give some advice to those of us pastors who are in traditional pastorates: what should we be doing so that our churches can avoid becoming a church that needs an STM in the future? Roger encourages honesty and communication—it can be that simple. If there are problems, go and talk to that person. He adds, “Don’t give people a stick to hit you with…If you say something, follow through, be consistent…And love the Bible and love people…They’re going to know…to sense that.” Harv encourages pastors and churches to “…continue clarifying vision…keep that sharp…make sure that there is a gospel focus.” He reiterates the basics of training leadership, addressing issues, communication, and accountability. If pastors humbly focus on these things while relying on the Holy Spirit, it goes a long way.

Jason picks up on the communication thread and encourages elders and deacons, not just pastors, to seek good communication. Roger shares one of the principal things is transparency and for councils to understand the majority of their work is public. Willingness to be transparent shows the people they’re loved. Jason builds on that, “If the congregation feels like the council is hiding information from them, then they lose trust and trust is really hard to get back.” Harv also shares the strategy of moving from accusatorial thinking when there’s disagreement to thinking about solutions and the potential benefit of listening groups.

That brings us to the end of our episode and the opportunity for final words. Roger shares, “Don’t think of [an STM’s help] as a stigma…a black mark against you. Look at it as a way that God is providing for some stability, hopefully, and leadership in a time of transition in the life of a church…The resources are there, and we just want to be a blessing to the churches that we help out in.” Harv builds on that , “When churches have had [an STM], they see that as a positive experience…a good thing…a healthy thing, and it can be a really, really joyful time.” He also encourages celebrating the good things that are happening in our churches and denomination with what God is doing and where he’s taking us. Jason adds a closing plug to any pastors who may be considering becoming STMs, to reach out to Roger or Harv, or to Thrive.

“When [a church invites] in an STM, what they’re saying is, ‘We want this person but also we’re willing to look at things. We’re going to be open-minded. We’re going to hear hard questions, and we’re going to deal with stuff.’ So they have prepared…and [an STM] can be a little bit more assertive…You have the freedom and the platform to deal with issues that maybe have been there but not talked about.” —Harv Roosma

Summary of This Episode

Jason, Willy, and Dan are back for a roundtable with Rev. Harv Roosma and Rev. Roger Sparks. The focus of the conversation is the ministry of Specialized Transitional Ministers (https://www.crcna.org/pcr/stm). (STMs) in the CRCNA. STMs usually are experienced ministers. Both Harv and Roger served in “traditional pastorates” for over twenty years in congregations in the U.S. and Canada before pursuing this work.

If you’re wondering what kind of churches do STMs pastor in and support, you’re probably not alone. As we look at the landscape of the CRC in the past few years, there are a lot of pastoral vacancies as well as churches finding themselves in difficult or contentious situations. Vacant churches typically call upon other pastors or those licensed to exhort to fill their pulpit each week, or they may hire an interim pastor, while they search for their next pastor. STMs have special training and support that a church hires to help the congregation through things before the search for their next pastor. Roger shares that the congregations who benefit from their work aren’t always in trouble or having problems; it can be that they’ve had a long-term pastor. “We were given some training and so we have some tools…that we can use to help churches think about vision and mission…[We provide] on-site experienced pastoral help to guide a church through a time of transition.” Harv adds that when they’re called in, it’s to look at things carefully.

Willy asks what the commitment of a church who hires or calls an STM is like. Roger shares that it’s typically a one-year commitment (which can be extended), and it is more expensive than just paying for weekly pulpit supply. The model they work from is typically in six-month sections. For the first part, STMs are getting to know and helping the church, being a pastor and support. From there, they’re working to set up the search committee, to prepare a ready church for their next pastor, and certainly continuing to love that church. Harv shares part of their work also involves narrowing down a list of priorities supplied by the church—so STM work is individualized to the church. He mentions their work can also lead to the conclusion of closing a local church.

Jason invites Harv and Roger to share what the training and equipping of an STM is. Harv did his training through Interim Ministry Network, which had four or five day intensives with a group of pastors, in which you’d look at the history and DNA of a church as well training to look for dynamics of change. For tools, he shares that STMs often do “appreciative inquiries” and “asset mapping.” Roger highlights learning about differentiation and avoiding triangulation—for a church where there is trouble, the STM must “stay just a little bit at arm’s length.” We also hear about an annual conference or retreat that STMs can gather and go over struggles and give advice or encouragement. They also have STM small groups that they connect with one another throughout the year by Zoom. Both the preparation and the continued connections have been really beneficial to them.

We close out the episode with the guys responding to Jason asking to lay out some of the differences between a traditional pastorate and being brought in as an STM. Harv goes right to the heart of things, “When [a church invites] in an STM, what they’re saying is, ‘We want this person but also we’re willing to look at things. We’re going to be open-minded. We’re going to hear hard questions, and we’re going to deal with stuff.’ So they have prepared…and [an STM] can be a little bit more assertive…You have the freedom and the platform to deal with issues that maybe have been there but not talked about.” He shares how there’s not a fear of being fired because your job is to uncover stuff. Roger adds, it’s not all about the talking or advice that they bring, but STM work involves a lot of listening. Doing so much of that does make it a bit difficult to leave after such a short time, but they’re prepared for that.

Join us next time as we hear more about working through difficult issues in churches and what pastors in traditional churches can do to serve their people well.

“We need to trim back…This is a normal aspect of renewal and reformation and revitalization…Everything expands, and then somebody eventually has to make some hard decisions to make some cuts…It’s going to hurt, [but] it’s not…personal.” —Jason Ruis

“If you have a mind for the church…for further casting vision in the CRC…if you see some of these positions start opening up or…a COD position…or another board or committee position…I would encourage you very much, do it…That’s where a lot of this work…is getting done.” —Willy Krahnke

Summary of This Episode

Jason, Willy, and Dan are back for the second part of their conversation on The Messy Reformation. Jason brings up the recommendation coming from the COD to Synod 2026 that synod meetings would be held every other year instead of every year. Willy, a delegate on the Council of Delegates, shares that this came out of the need to steward declining financial resources. He speaks passionately against it. He views Synod not just as a delegated body but as the church. We’re called to gather, this is part of that, the delegates are called by God—and this would shrug that off. He points out the number of COD meetings wouldn’t decrease; it would remain at six in two years. “How self-important have we made the COD?...Is that where the authority should lie in our denomination?” He also suggests, “…A recommendation to have synod every other year coming out of a ‘war’ like we’ve just had is foolish.”

Dan and Jason agree with Willy, and don’t hear a lot of positive talk around the recommendation. However, Dan thinks it could be approved by Synod because of the low commitment atmosphere that he perceives in the denomination. This means more people having to do even less, that may appeal to some. Willy urges that for those who already feel disconnected, this signals more authority and work going to Grand Rapids—it’s not the way to build trust and connection. We’ve just had these “Gather” events and celebrated getting together, but we’re going to gather less now—how does that make sense?

Jason picks up the imagery of ships that is connected with a classis, and wonders how this recommendation would actually help us row in the same direction. He believes it will “undo the possibility of bringing better unity…vision…focus, and direction to our denomination.” Taking years off due to COVID did not seem positive—“Things build up. Politics happen.” It seems like this is just about money, but there are other ways to cut dollars and cents. We shouldn’t do it in the wrong places. Again, we need a strong and clear vision, or else cuts are made in the wrong places. He shares, “…We need to trim back…This is a normal aspect of renewal and reformation and revitalization…Everything expands, and then somebody eventually has to make some hard decisions to make some cuts…It’s going to hurt, [but] it’s not…personal.”

After that lengthy conversation, Jason brings up a recent positive change in the CRC—Lora Copley being hired as the interim director of The Banner. One of the signs of the change is a recent article written by Herb Schreur (https://www.thebanner.org/columns/2026/01/the-next-first-step). Jason and Dan highlight that we need people to keep stepping up and to be willing to serve in various positions and to write. Dan also notes, “It’s going to take the support now of the Abide-minded folks…to go back to The Banner to make this work.” For those who like the direction the CRC is moving in after the last few years, we’ve got to be willing to give things a chance and support. Willy builds on that, “…If you have a mind for the church…for further casting vision in the CRC…if you see some of these positions start opening up or…a COD position…or another board or committee position…I would encourage you very much, do it…That’s where a lot of this work…is getting done.”

Dan’s comments bring us toward the conclusion of the episode. He talks about the sense of “calling” he’s heard from Sam Vanhuizen, a member and officebearer in Classis Lake Superior. We want to see the priesthood of believers on display, that not only the officebearers in the CRC matter but everyone has a role to play that God has called them to. Jason points out that the priesthood of believers and ecclesiology—topics that keep coming up in our discussions—were major tenets for the Reformers. All of us hope that there are many more years left for the CRC, but we can’t be lazy. Willy offers a call to act boldly, courageously, prayerfully, and to understand you’re under the sovereignty of a big God.

“The last two years revealed there hasn’t been vision here for a long time…We’ve been coasting around. We’ve got all these ships sailing together…but are we actually sailing together? And who’s helping keep us together? He clarifies, he’s not looking for a CRC pope, but a leader who is excited and passionately Reformed and will cast vision.” —Jason Ruis

Summary of This Episode

This week on The Messy Reformation, Jason, Willy, and Dan give an update on their lives and what’s happening in the CRC. Dan continues to pastor the people of Baldwin CRC, and is looking forward to a sabbatical for rest, refreshment, and considering God’s call on his life this summer. He’s also going to be joining the Candidacy office, Calvin Theological Seminary representatives, and CMLT servants from across the denomination for a gathering in Phoenix this week, and plans to attend the Coram Deo Conference in March. Willy shares the big thing in terms of his church life at Pease CRC was the installation of Rev. Brad Bierma this past fall. He also shares from his involvement on the Council of Delegates that they have been talking about consolidating classes and a recommendation to switch to biennial synods. On the EIRC, he’s also part of the subcommittee looking at our relationship with the RCA. Jason has continued to adjust to his new position, primarily with Central Wisconsin Christian School as well as being an associate pastor. They’ve had a difficult loss in the school community that he’s grateful to have been able to help walk the school through that.

Jason poses the question of what’s the feel throughout the CRC at the beginning of 2026? Willy frames it well, “Trying to search for and fight and establish our identity…We’ve established what we’re against, and now…we’re having a hard time figuring out exactly what we stand for.” Dan alludes to an article published on “The Aquila Report” blog from 2018 (written by Rev. Paul T. Murphy, not Aaron Vriesman)—link here—, which talked about how the URC established their identity as not being CRC but had to figure out what the URC is. “I sense…an unsettling quietness…The fight or work is unknown.” He shares he feels like things have settled down, allowing people to focus on other work, but some are wondering what we did. He doesn’t think it’s necessarily about what we did, but an uncertainty of where we’re going. Jason shares a bit from Eugene Peterson’s “The Pastor” that after a big action, people can sense accomplishment but then not know what to do next. He agrees, rebuilding is about finding our identity.

Dan shares something he picked up from Patrick (not Peter) Lencioni’s “The Five Dysfunctions of a Team” related to some classis work he’s doing. He’s discovered it’s possible that a classis can’t truly be a team, and likely that applies to the CRC as well. While we may think and say we want a team mentality, is it possible we were so focused on reaching certain conclusions that we didn’t think or tend to results beyond. This attention to organizational terms seems to be part of a generational shift that hasn’t been present before in the CRC. Jason picks that up, “The last two years revealed there hasn’t been vision here for a long time…We’ve been coasting around. We’ve got all these ships sailing together…but are we actually sailing together? And who’s helping keep us together? He clarifies, he’s not looking for a CRC pope, but a leader who is excited and passionately Reformed and will cast vision.”

Willy “tips his hat” to Zach King, our General Secretary, for the work he’s done, especially when the Office of General Secretary has been tasked with so much by synods. He redirects, “...The denominational leaders we should be looking to are our ministers [and] elders,” but he also names that having a vision is not the only struggle but figuring out who’s vision. Dan highlights the reality of that. We have around 950 churches and pastors, so how or who gets to pick the vision. He suggests working through classes, which at least boils it down to 49. Willy sees the benefit there of being able to identify and share from the diversity of gifts and focus. We’ve got to figure out how to share across classes, though.

Jason prods on, asking for solution ideas. Willy states, “I personally love the idea of classes getting together…not even of the same region.” Jason thinks of strong leadership, like a football coach, who looks over everything, casts a vision, encourages and persuades to see how what one person, church, or classis is doing can help another. The three talk a bit about some of the gatherings that do take place outside of regions–the Gathering initiative, classical clerk conferences, the Candidacy-CMLT gathering, and others like those. Dan suggest that Thrive should focus on making connections versus making materials, but points out one of the biggest obstacles is buy-in. At some point, pastors, officebearers, church members, churches, and classes need to buy-in. Jason shares that he doesn’t have the solution, and he recognizes there are leaders looking, but there’s a need for change.