Episode 113: Conversation with Matt Vanden Heuvel & David Swinney (Part 1)

https://youtu.be/GYVBaZ7C_sM

"We need to get away from these really quick, light, pop kind of sermons and get back to the place where we’re feeding God’s people on the meat of the word." - David Swinney

Summary of This Episode

Matt Vanden Heuvel and David Swinney are two CRC pastors who have been working together for several years. Matt is married to his wife, Julie, with whom he has three kids. He was ordained at his wife's home church in Calgary before taking a call to Covenant Christian Reformed Church there as well. David is the pastor at High River Christian Reformed Church in High River, Alberta, and is married to one wife with six kids and eight grandchildren.

The two were originally thrown together in an ad-hoc Faith Formation Committee for their Classis and got to know each other better through working on various projects together. In 2017, they had an idea to preach through the five solas of the Reformed faith over five Sundays in October, with each of them preaching two sermons at each other's churches. This evolved into a trilogy of sermons on Luke-Acts-Revelation. Matt & David discuss their experience of studying and preaching from the Gospel of Luke, Acts, and Revelation.

They also explore how their understanding of post-millennial eschatology has shaped and enriched their preaching. Matt says he has become a post-millennialist from studying these books and it has given him an optimistic view of the future. Additionally, they discuss the use of Psalm 2 in understanding Christ's authority over the nations now and how this relates to the Great Commission. They also note that when considering eschatology in scripture, it is possible to reconcile passages to one's eschatology which gives an optimistic view of the future. They believe post-millennial eschatology has enabled them to have a hopeful outlook in their preaching of scripture.

Matt talks about how his post-millennial view has changed over time, particularly due to conversations with his friend David. He believes that the Christian church is in a period of growth, but that it comes with growing pains. He also speaks of the cycles of history, in which although there are struggles, ultimately the church is progressing upwards.

Matt also speaks of how he and his friend David work together on sermon preparation. They think through ideas together and he uses his superpower of "questioning" to help them gain clarity in their thoughts. David encourages younger preachers to write out their sermons for practice, even if they don't use them. This will help them develop the discipline of writing out ideas and thinking through their sermon topics more thoroughly.

Even though David and Matt have different interests, personalities, and ages, they share a common passion for the Word of God and a desire to understand it as it truly is. Through their conversations, they have developed a verbal process of talking through the passage and then writing it down. They also take notes together when working in person or remotely over the phone. These notes are a combination of their thoughts and ideas, creating an “ours” rather than “mine” or “yours” document. They recognize that even though they may preach from the same text, their sermons will be completely different due to their contextual differences.

Matt & Davide emphasize why preaching is so important in churches and denominations for reformation and revitalization purposes. Belgic Confession Article 29 states that one of the three marks of the true church is the pure preaching of the gospel. This is critical to the health of congregations as this is a lost world that needs God’s Word. Therefore, David and Matt prioritize understanding Scripture as it truly is in order to preach its truth effectively in their respective pulpits with an aim to spread the gospel throughout the world.

Jason discusses the importance of preaching in the church and how it has been downgraded in recent years. He laments that many churches have become accustomed to short sermons that don't offer much substance and encourages pastors to work on reclaiming preaching and listening as part of the process. He suggests that pastors should train their congregations to become accustomed to longer sermons and to listen more attentively. Jason notes that he began with shorter sermons when he first came to his current congregation but has since been able to extend them to 20-30 sermons per series. He recommends that pastors take a gradual approach in training their congregations, rather than expecting them to adjust immediately, and encourages preachers to listen to good preaching from different generations in order to gain insight into the craft.

David & Matt discuss the importance of growing the muscles of members of the congregation so that they can not only listen to sermons but also orient their affections towards them. David discusses the expectations people have from sermons and how the sermon should be structured to provide help in marriage, 10 steps, or just sit under the preaching of God’s Word.

Jason makes a connection between Ephesians 4 and 2 Timothy 3, which both emphasize how pastors and teachers should equip saints for works of ministry through preaching. He highlights that when going to a bedside, pastors have nothing but the Word of God to bring comfort, hope, and peace. David laments that people these days don’t have a deep theological understanding like before. To illustrate this point, he shares an anecdote from his first church about visiting elderly who spoke Dutch as a first language. He was impressed with an elder who spoke Dutch and asked “What is your only comfort in life and in death?” He concludes by saying that reciting this phrase can bring someone comfort even if they don’t remember anything else in life.

David advocates for the reinstitution of the Catechism Service in their congregation, as he believes it provides a strong theological foundation for members of the church. He argues that this foundation is missing in younger generations and that it can have a positive impact when visiting people in the hospital, as they can understand God's love and grace.