Episode 145: Conversation with Drew Hoekema (Part 2)

“You have the theology…you have the passion and the clarity. And I wonder if that’s where some of us…our churches…our ministers [have] lost our way a bit—where we lost the fervent, loving passion for what we believe and saying, ‘No, this is good and this is not forcing it down your throat, but just presenting it in its beauty and in its glory.’” -Drew Hoekema

Summary of This Episode

This episode of the Messy Reformation podcast picks up the conversation with Rev. Drew Hoekema, pastor of Platte CRC in South Dakota. The three continue discussing what they’ve noticed and recommend when it comes discipleship. While Willy has shared his love for Reformed theologians and their writings, not everyone picks those up so enthusiastically. Drew has noticed there seem to be attempts from Faith Alive and some other publishers trying to spice things up with the intent of being relevant or catching attention but end up distracting from the subject material. Jason acknowledges there’s a caution to not join the pendulum swinging out to extremes—only teach material dryly or teach so energetically but without substance. “We need to be discipling. We need to be training people in God’s Word and in the confessions…Disciple with life and energy.”   

Drew shares how he picked up on 1-on-1 relational discipleship through his wife’s involvement with The Navigators during college. Our discipleship model shouldn’t just be getting people through the factory assembly line, but do this intentionally. He appreciated how Rev. David Bosscher encouraged articulating what we want at The Abide Project Convention. Willy picks that up and reminds us that when we look at our discipleship and Sunday School classes, churches need to ask: “Are you capturing the essence of what the Catechism is teaching or not?” and “Does the teacher…love…what they teach?” Drew has found 1-on-1 discipleship difficult due to a possible intimidation in his current context, but found 4-5 men in a small group to be more fruitful. Jason encourages those looking to do 1-on-1 with men to include doing other things while having conversations—hobbies, walking, working, not necessarily staring at each other at a coffee shop.

From there, the conversation turns to an honest look at the challenges of ministry in the local church. Drew shares how he is in the 7th year in his call and finds himself reflecting on his impact and if he’s bearing fruit. He can understand why 7 years tends to be a time to take a different call throughout CRC history. Jason encourages pastors to listen to Pastor Alistair Begg’s “The Dangers and Delights of Long-Term Ministry” from the 2013 Basics Pastor’s Conference [here’s the video]

In that talk, Begg shares how the average lifespan of a pastor in a church is 5-7 years, but years 7-10 are the most effective. Pastoral ministry is difficult and tiring, a reality that Jason was reminded of in a recent ordination service sermon on 2 Corinthians 4—we will be tempted to lose heart, but don’t lose heart. 

Drew brings up the current culture in Christian Reformed congregations does seem to follow how growth leveled off in the denomination and in some churches in the 1990s. Things slowed down at that point, and “Churches started to…reach for some…levers [because what we’ve done] isn’t working anymore. So, we have to be different. We have to do something different. We have to get this program, that program…Reaching for some of those things that were going to be the solution…That’s part of being Reformed, ‘always reforming’—so we have to think outside the box.” Yet when you look at some of the big names in Christian culture—like John Piper and despite differences we might have, “You have the theology…you have the passion and the clarity. And I wonder if that’s where some of us…our churches…our ministers [have] lost our way a bit—where we lost the fervent, loving passion for what we believe and saying, ‘No, this is good and this is not forcing it down your throat, but just presenting it in its beauty and in its glory.’” Willy points out that we have to remember, “If it’s going to bear fruit, if the Spirit is going to work, then it’s because it is the power of God to those who believe…That’s the hope we rest in, knowing that our discipleship is never in vain.” 

That takes us to Drew’s final words for listeners. As he looks at the question of what it takes for reformation in any church, his answer is it happens according to the Word of God, and “the importance [of] a continued, renewed emphasis on God’s Word.” He shares a lesson of Carl Trueman’s from Martin Luther on how the Reformation happened: “The Word did the work.” “[We need] continued trust and faith in the faithful and passionate—not only preaching, but teaching and discipleship in the Word of God, and…‘It will not return void’” (Isaiah 55:11). Jason points out the daily discipline of devotions—sometimes you see how powerful and transforming it is, and other times it takes a while to process and even understand. Drew closes, “It’s a little bit like meals. Some meals are [memorable for how] really, really good [they are]. And other times it’s just what you needed to continue on.”