Episode 264: I've Never Fixed Anyone — Shaun Furniss (Part 2)

“The reality is, in a church, people want to be fed by the same hand that’s holding their hand next to the bedside…What I mean is the person that they see on Sunday morning is the same person they want to be visiting them and caring for them and walking alongside of them in…whatever their struggle may be.” —Shaun Furniss

Summary of This Episode

Welcome back to part 2 of Jason’s conversation with Rev. Shaun Furniss, one of the co-pastors of Trinity CRC in Sparta, MI. We pick up the conversation around Christian counseling and pastoral care, which continues throughout this whole episode as well, addressing the relationship of a pastor with their elders. One of the difficulties pastors often express is feeling alone and having no one to share what’s going on in ministry with. To bring everything home to a spouse is inappropriate and can cause problems for one’s spouse as a member of a congregation. However, in our polity, pastors can and should develop relationships with their elders by which they can share when they are feeling overwhelmed. It’s not just for the pastor to open up, but it’s teaching the elders how to do ministry as well and that the pastor values their contributions.

Jason takes it a step further, and asks Shaun what advice he would give to pastors and elders who are trying to care well for their congregation. Shaun’s response may remind listeners of what we heard from the recent STM roundtable—get to know your people, your districts, and simply be approachable. We should be showing those we’re shepherding that they are not just “a congregant,” but we know who they are, we know their name, we care about them.” He shares that CCEF (Christian Counseling & Educational Foundation) has solid, biblical, practical materials that are worth checking out, and encourages doing the work of looking for local resources. Whether in your church or known by other churches around you, counseling and care shouldn’t feel like something we need to do alone. Jason alludes to a quote from John Calvin who said the care of souls is so overwhelming that it’s not to be done on one’s own; that burden care speaks to why God’s given the church elders.

The conversation turns to the necessity and value of relationships between those being counseled or cared for and those who are doing that. Shaun points out how even in the co-pastor arrangement at Trinity, it’s less about specialized roles and more about sharing the responsibility. He shares, “The reality is, in a church, people want to be fed by the same hand that’s holding their hand next to the bedside…What I mean is the person that they see on Sunday morning is the same person they want to be visiting them and caring for them and walking alongside of them in…whatever their struggle may be.” He later states, “It’s that horizontal element to that relationship where you’re building the relationship with them, but ultimately you’re pointing them to a relationship with Christ (the vertical relationship). He’s the One who’s going to ultimately transform their heart. He’s the One who’s going to help break that addiction. He’s the One who’s going to remove their sin. He’s the one who’s going to relieve that guilt and that loneliness and those sort of things that we struggle with…So…we need to make sure that we’re maintaining the balance.” He goes on to highlight the importance of being aware and avoiding a savior complex.

Jason puts that in terms of actual pastoral care relationships that he’s had—namely, young people who’ve contemplated and attempted to suicide. He talks about how that can, understandably, keep you awake at night and feel so overwhelming. He’s had to heed the advice of a well-seasoned pastor who reminded him to rely on the Lord as the fixer of problems, not ourselves. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care, but sometimes we do need to go to bed, to get necessary sleep, and trust God will work. Shaun beautifully reminds us that’s a way to rely on the baptismal promises of God. He has called us to shepherd his flock, but we are shepherding them to him. The guys agree—pastoral ministry, and God through it, will humble you over and over again, causing us to rely on and cry out to the Lord.

Jason shares a final thought from a book on prayer that framed prayer as flowing from helplessness. People are more likely to pray when they feel helpless, and they are likely to have prayerless times when they don’t think they need help. He’s learned, though, we’re always helpless and not in control—that shouldn’t drive us to fear, but to a powerful God who provides for and leads us. Shaun gives an example of a time when he’s flipped the idea “God’s not going to give me more than I can handle” to “God won’t give you anything that he can’t handle. He uses these often heartbreaking, difficult circumstances to show his power and his grace and his healing hand in these very difficult circumstances.” Shaun closes by expressing gratitude for the ministry of The Messy Reformation and opening listeners’ eyes to the work God is doing throughout the CRC. He reminds us again, “…When it comes to pastoral care...people don’t care what you know until they know that you care, and the more that you can build those relationships to build a bridge upon which the gospel can then go across, that’s truly where you get to see the beauty of God working.”